[Archived - DiamondBones] When will NCD be cancelled ?

Posted by “JanXuan” on January 02, 2024.

@DiamondBones​ The choice is all to the mesher. Either put wire maps and discourage NCD, Or texture the mesh and accept NCD. Umder the current regulations I see no other options.

Posted by “DiamondBones” on November 22, 2023.

thank you @jilly10​  XD

yeahh @,@ the mcg layer is something I notice a lot of staff have not been following the "zoom in until you see through the avatar" tutorial we all did. When we do pr, we can run away whenever we want, but they probably have to stick to it for hours since they're official employees, so I bet it's incredibly tedious for them to have to verify all of the failed pr items. I wouldn't survive doing PR all day lol. I wish the MCG layer was permanently in place as a non budgeable and non blended bikini Material layer so it would help us not have to inspect so thoroughly.

Posted by “DiamondBones” on November 22, 2023.

Ok. I re-read what you wrote with a more clear mind, and I like it better. It would mean that derivers would have to manually save material texture maps from the creators product page and derivers would need to save them and upload them to each map of the product. We can do this now voluntarily, but many meshers are not doing it because it looks nicer to begin with a nice looking mesh, for inspiration. Would be nice to encourage them to derive their own meshes to display inspirational textures

Posted by “DiamondBones” on November 22, 2023.

I'd suggest to freeze their future purchase abilities, that way those who already have bought them get to still use them, but future shoppers could only buy the original one.

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on November 15, 2023.

If Zero Change Derives were "outlawed" and no longer, what would happen to all the ones that are out there now?

Posted by “JanXuan” on November 15, 2023.

@DiamondBones​ That seems pretty complicated. The way I described it there will be no gain for lazy creators. Some may still do it and make their derivation derivable, but customers won't buy the wire maps. And clever devs will follow the derivation tree back to the original mesh. You will still get the derivation fee from the NCD, but there it will probably stop.

Posted by “jilly10” on November 13, 2023.

Interesting points. Agree with all that you wrote.

I mind so much after seeing several users all with the same catalog item font logo doing no changes to the *same* items, only to fill up their catalog and clog up the PR queue.

As well as that, I've just flagged loads of items after getting incorrect votes on peer review whereby they remove the MCG layer. It still seems to pass review AND I get incorrectly voted.

It becomes a problem when people are doing this and it makes the rest of the creators wait ages for review because they are pushing these through the system.

It's broken.

Oh yeah, have to say, great avatar on your 3d profile. Will be checking your shop more!

Posted by “DiamondBones” on November 13, 2023.

Yeah! What they were mentioning here was that they noticed No Change Derive items get passed faster through Peer Review compared to a product that has anything different. I think this means that because the code overlaps with previously loaded data on the site, the system recognizes it faster and eliminates it quicker compared to an item with new code that requires more time to process it, with a NCD, it's already been processed. So the existing program is already identifying NCD items, staff just need to program it to block them from passing peer review, which is the opposite of the current situation that is passing them faster.

There are better ways to earn credits that don't require betraying customers good faith. Also, NCD taints products. It sullies them. Many experienced users here have a fun hobby of matching eachother so they do share items, and when they notice that the version of the product they own was produced by a creator who lacks integrity... it makes the customer feel violated or respect the catalogue even less. There's currently a huge problem everywhere online where customers are feeling detached with how their products came to be, and find it a waste of time to go out of their way to make sure the items they want to buy are not stollen content. I know in the furry community, when a creator steals someone's design, usually the fans will notice and tell the original owner and help them file a lawsuit. But when it comes to other products, it's much harder to recognize if it's original or stollen content, so it easily gets blended in, and many customers feel that it's not their problem, even when the proof is there because it's so much work. NCD are technically not illegal but it does fall into the same umbrella and does help condition customers to care less about how their products came to be, and when they care less, they usually end up accepting riskier behavior more, which may lead to them not enjoying their time here and not staying. Especially since most people joining are from the younger age groups, it's easier for them to be influenced, so I do think it's better to clean up where we can.

Posted by “DiamondBones” on November 13, 2023.

Maybe you got something here. Maybe instead of making our meshes openly derivable, we can set it to "permission required" only. That way a mesher can view the request, check their shop/profile out, see if it's an obvious scam account or a legit creator. Most meshers don't get that many derivers anyways within a short period of time. This would be very annoying for popular meshes though since they would get many requests. Would also be annoying for meshers who just wanted to stop buy for passive income and don't actually want the extra maintenance. So maybe not lol

Posted by “JanXuan” on November 11, 2023.

The only way to stop NCD is to not make textured products derivable. Make a wire map version of your product derivable. Making textured products derivable is like asking for NCD.

Posted by “jilly10” on November 02, 2023.

I don't see why or how that can be stopped, after all it's making credits for the original creators and IMVU. I do frown when I see the amount of NCD in "Pro" creator catalogs though when they hardly change anything at all. Don't get me wrong there are some amazing creators, meshers and texture artists here. However, I agree with your OP after seeing many a tier 10 "Pro" creator with a catalog full of NCD that have hardly changed anything, even so far as re-using the catalog icon and putting their own logo on it and charging very much extra. I'm not even talking about a recolour here because that is valid if you ask me. I am surprised how little the tier system makes sense by this. I tend to look up the derive chain and find the original and derive from that rather than paying extra for a rip off merchant, sorry to say. Some products are hidden though so it makes it difficult. And some have many shops to hide the chain. Oh well.

Posted by “DiamondBones” on November 02, 2023.

If the system remembers viewing identical data from a product to the point it passes peer review faster... then the path to block No Change Derives already exists here, we just have to help staff feel secure about taking this away from us and support staff when the abusers publicly complain and drag the site.

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on October 11, 2023.

I think a product that has passed PR and then derived with No Changes to it would pass quickly. This helps mine pass quicker in the process BUT if the original is rated incorrectly; as said, this could very well be an issue.

Posted by “jilly10” on October 10, 2023.

I've just found this thread. It seems like those NCD? go straight through the peer review system, forcing new creators like me to wait 48 hours for a new mesh or texture changes to go through. Yet a no change will pass within minutes. 20 plus items straight into the catalog and I'm still waiting. It's quite funny really how easy the system is to be gamed like that.

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on March 28, 2023.

The only thing I think about is those who ZCD my products, they give me new exposure to more people (their follows) and probabl give my product more exposure with new Title / Keywords, etc.

Like having a sales person on commission, LOL

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on March 28, 2023.

I do like the way Studio handles the Derivation Tree when deriving.

The Tree is listed on the Right Side just above the Derive button (see below).

This will help reduce the people who accidentally derive from a ZCD.

I hope this helps others being more careful in Deriving Products

Posted by “DiamondBones” on March 28, 2023.

Can you imagine... how many creators would adore the chance to fail a product like this in peer review...

Posted by “Vorvolaka” on March 28, 2023.

I've noticed it a lot lately. I know how you feel! I found a creator I like a lot recently, only to find out a large portion of their items are ZCDs. By default now, I always check the derivation tree.

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on February 28, 2023.

Yes, the Zero Change Derives have long been frowned upon in the Creator Community. It is a Cheap, Easy and Lazy way for "creators" to build a catalog. Unfortunately it is to "Dupe" the Customer out of extra money and most are not aware. Most ZCD "creators" build a reputation over time.

The New Catalogs on new platforms have little to no way of discovering if a product is ZCD's or not. Only Power Shoppers who are aware of the Classic HTML Catalog can easily see if a product is a rip-off or not. They can do this by looking at the Derivation Tree.