[Archived - Parcel] Are textures showing nipples through a shirt GA or AP?

Posted by “Lexique” on June 28, 2023.

I just don’t understand when things are acceptable and when they aren’t. Like you said it seems to be rather subjective. I’ve never had a streamed picture taken down, but many of those I follow have - almost always GA, but they seem to be blindly taken down whenever anyone reports for any reason. On the other hand, many of the first listed GA chat rooms are black market and full of black market poses, and lots of avatars wearing black market nude GA bodies. How did all of these make it through the peer review system and why are the rooms not taken down immediately? One would get the impression that the black market is rather profitable.

Posted by “VictoriaAlexandrea” on June 28, 2023.

I've been using IMVU going on 13+ years (this was my 2nd account) and this has always been debated along with the skin toned underwear and all I can say is that it boils down to what the person doing the double checking thinks at the time.

I purposely started skipping anything like this or the other products that skirted the rules because I'd get an incorrect for flagging it correctly as AP. It was so bad I just stopped doing peer review altogether. It's like letting criminals police and make the rules because there will be one set of rules for some users, and others for others and people will use or disregard the rules to suit their needs knowing they can get away with it.

IMVU has always been very clear but still don't force users (and feels like staff) have to go through any testing and ensure that they will rate products correctly.

... remember the days where it didn't let you know if there were any hidden triggers?! So glad they fixed THAT issue at least during the many years I did do PR.

Posted by “gemini61984” on May 21, 2023.

its ap but imvu don't care

Posted by “BunnyCakes” on May 20, 2023.

Here's what happened when I asked the same question almost a year ago.

https://cc.imvu.com/s/question/0D55d0000CkSfnZCQS/are-female-shaded-nipple-shadows-ga-or-ap

Posted by “jazzKat” on May 16, 2023.

@Parcel unfortunately due to the subjective nature of this issue we're not likely to get a clear answer, and even if one is provided, it's still going to be subject to items being reported by non-creator users that don't know and/or CS that don't know either.

Under those circumstances we'd be best interpreting the MGC as originally intended - not exposing anything covered by red - if you see anything like this in PR, don't review it.

Posted by “Lexique” on May 16, 2023.

Parcel, I think the answer was clear, that the intent of the TOS is that such things as nipple shadows would be marked as AP. We all have our stories and triggers, and I’m very sorry I hit yours. Because of my profession, I am quite sensitive to these issues, and also aware that things are changing and it’s hard to navigate. If Jazz is right regarding the current situation, then your own moral compass is something that plays an important role.

Posted by “Parcel” on May 15, 2023.

Hi Lexique,

As a survivor, I'm gonna have ask you to stop. Your points are derailing from the discussion at hand.

I digress, there is merit in discussing the politics that have lead to this issue, but it still doesn't help me in peer review when I'm presented with a drawn on nipple shadow and have to decide is it AP or not.

I'm not asking about the politics of this issue. I'm asking for clarification (preferably from staff), are drawn on nipple shadows AP or not?

It is a simple yes/no answer.

Can someone of staff please clarify this so we don't argue ourselves into oblivion?

Posted by “Lexique” on May 15, 2023.

It’s a crazy time I wonder where it will go. 5 years ago certain things that would have been considered CSA are now being actively pushed and presented to young children in our public school system.

Posted by “jazzKat” on May 15, 2023.

While money obviously plays its part, decisions like this are largely relative to exist laws, regulations and industry guidelines governing 'content', ESA ratings guidelines in particular (U, PG, Teen, etc.) - online services typically self-regulate (which may be changing soon).

On this particular topic though, the MCG is a *coverage* guide, which implies, without it necessarily needing to be explicitly said (maybe it should), that *any* detail 'exposed' or 'revealed' beyond or within the red area is prohibited for GA items., no if's or but's on that - red = featureless (basically).

Unfortunately some folks (erroneously) used 'politics' to argue around this point, which has lead to the problem we're now facing, where no one will properly rate content and what should be AP content gets rated as GA.

To be frank, what we personally 'feel' about anatomical correctness on this only matters so much as something being correctly rated AP or GA.

But all that's out the window now and creators do what they want.

Posted by “Lexique” on May 15, 2023.

I skip these too. I got banned early on for too many wrong answers, I got them to reinstate me and have skipped anything controversial since! :-D I would consider myself more on the conservative side and consider CSA criminal and don’t want IMVU to become a breeding ground for such, but I do find IMVU to be full of contradictions. After all, right on the featured scrolling banners in the NEXT catalog is a pussyriot sweatshirt that states that vasectomies prevent abortions! I find this quite offensive, actually, and based on questions from a recent survey I’m guessing the pussyriot NFTs weren’t a big hit.

Is it really fair to consider women’s breasts under the same classification as genitalia? In a professional business setting it is considered unprofitable for nipples to show on either men or women. But while it might fail a dress code, is not a criminal offense for a woman to go without a bra under her shirt - under half the states have indecent exposure laws that would address nipple exposure is in regards to the opacity of the covering. Nursing in public… But guns on imvu? No problem. (Although they don’t bother me either - did I mention growing up on Montana? LoL). These kinds of standards used to be driven by the bottom line rather than any actual morality, and maybe still are to some extent. But it seems to be the trend these days for companies to forgo profit for politics and the results have been a bit…. mixed.

Posted by “jazzKat” on May 14, 2023.

See Discord ;)

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on May 14, 2023.

HEY ?

I want some Politics ! How do I get some of that ?

And... I like Fishing, gimme that can of worms! :D

Posted by “jazzKat” on May 14, 2023.

Without opening the can-o-worms too much on this particular subject, 'politics'. IOW it's not about "understanding the VPG" as you put it.

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on May 14, 2023.

My question is still as it has been for years...

How the Heck do we get Staff who Check Flagged / Failed products to understand the VGP? If regular community people understand, shouldn't the Employees hired and paid to understand... understand, too?

It seems everyone has their own interpretation.

If the Guidelines were more specific without having to use a lawyer to interrupt them, it would help. If all new Staff were trained in Detail, maybe they would judge to give proper verdict.

1. Who trains Staff for Flag Reports and do they understand?
2. Who updates the VGP Guideline, Help Files for everyone's understanding?
3. Can't we please get control of the Catalog for our Young People?

I know, sometimes my posts seem harsh or very direct, I don't mean this in a negative manner. These are things I feel strongly about and think they should be noticed, changed or reconciled by upper Staff.

Help Please?

Posted by “jazzKat” on May 14, 2023.

Contextualised to the intent of the MCG they're AP, otherwise there is no need for the Minimum Coverage Guide. But as @LestatDeLioncourt​ noted, these days, like much stuff that makes it into the catalogue, it seems they're GA until they get reported.

Posted by “LestatDeLioncourt” on May 10, 2023.

Hi @Parcel​ I my opinion, this should be AP. It is probably a "roll-of-the-dice". Many times the product is okay as GA and once in a while it would be re-rate it as AP.

The actual "Virtual Good Policy" says the following.

Nudity (APO) - Virtual goods depicting full or partial nudity, including but not limited to nude humans, nude avatars, skins, and/or products (transparent or otherwise) that cover less than the GA minimum coverage guidelines below. Depiction of uncovered female breasts and un-aroused male or female genitals are considered part of this category. Products that may meet the minimum coverage guidelines but due to enhancements/enlargements of avatar bodies and parts project the sense of nudity fall under this category as well.

If it makes the viewer have the "Sense" of Nudity, (my opinion) is it should be AP. This not the opinion of most items like this in the catalog.